American Football Association (1977-1983)
Tombstone
Born: May 1977 – AFA founding franchise
Folded: 1983
First Game: July 2, 1977 (W 77-0 vs. Fort Worth Stars)
Last Game: July 23, 1983 (L 39-0 @ Charlotte Storm)
AFA Champions: None
Stadia
1977-1978: Harlandale Stadium
1977: South San Antonio Stadium
1977: Northside Stadium
1977-1983: Alamo Stadium
Opened: 1940
Marketing
Team Colors:
Ownership
Owners:
- 1977-1982: Roger Gill
- 1982-1983: Clinton Manges and Pat Maloney
Background
The San Antonio Charros (later the San Antonio Bulls) were a minor league football outfit in the American Football Association from 1977 to 1983. The AFA launched in 1977 as a Texas-Oklahoma loop and then gradually spread north and east. At its most expansive in 1982, AFA franchises stretched from San Antonio to Florida and north to Buffalo and Racine, Wisconsin.
The league often had the feel of a low-budget re-boot of the defunct World Football League that placed teams in major cities in 1974 and 1975 and briefly attempted to outbid the NFL for top player talent. The WFL was a spectacular failure. The league lost over $20 million in its first season and shut down midway through its second. Nevertheless, some AFA owners seemed to feel nostalgia for what might have been. Over the years several clubs revived the brand names of their defunct WFL predecessors, including the Shreveport Steamer, Chicago Fire and Alabama Vulcans.
The AFA also lifted its unusual player compensation model from the final season of the WFL, which promised each player on the roster 1% of the gate revenues, rather than a fixed salary. Former NFL All-Pro quarterback Billy Kilmer served as Commissioner of the AFA for one chaotic season in 1981 and recalled how this worked in practice:
“Sometimes the attendance was so small players were paid nothing,” Kilmer told The Associated Press in 1982.1Sansevere, Bob. ASSOCIATED PRESS. “Kilmer believes TV, gambling will help new league”. The Star-Telegram (Fort Worth, TX). June 8, 1982 “Others got a check for $20.”
Wings To Toros
League co-founder and San Antonio Charros owner Roger Gill had WFL roots as well. Gill played tight end at Texas Tech and later for two seasons with the Philadelphia Eagles in 1974 and 1975. He extended his playing career into the early 1970’s with the San Antonio Toros of the minor Texas Football League and later joined the front office of the WFL’s San Antonio Wings in a player personnel role in 1975. Gill would later serve as the AFA’s Commissioner during its final seasons after Kilmer resigned in 1981.
During the AFA’s first season in 1977, the Charros ran the table, posting an undefeated 10-0 record under Head Coach Harry Lander. The team featured a couple of former WFL Wings players including wide receiver Tom Whittier and cornerback J.V. Stokes.
In March 1979, the Charros signed San Antonio native Randy Johnson. Johnson was one of two 1966 1st round draft picks of the NFL’s expansion Atlanta Falcons and was the first starting quarterback in Falcons franchise history. Johnson kicked around the NFL and the World Football League for parts of ten seasons, mostly as a back-up. The 34-year old earned all-league honors at quarterback for the Charros in 1979.
After the 1981 season, San Antonio dropped the Charros name – which meant “horseman” in Spanish – in favor of the San Antonio Bulls. Team owner Roger Gill was appointed AFA Commissioner prior to the 1982 season. As part of the move, Gill agreed to divest himself of the Bulls franchise. He sold the club to Texas oilman Clinton Manges and his personal attorney Pat Maloney in June of 1982.
The AFA was always a rickety enterprise. Fly-by-night teams came and went from year-to-year. Players revolted over bounced paychecks and other indignities. One of the final blows to the league was the formation of the big-budget United States Football League in May of 1982. The birth of the USFL, with its ABC and ESPN TV contracts, effectively killed whatever pipe dreams the AFA had of gaining a cable television deal.
The USFL also placed franchises in several AFA markets, including San Antonio. Bulls owner Clinton Manges purchased a USFL expansion franchise in June of 1983 to begin play in the spring of 1984. The Bulls played their final season in the summer of 1983. Roger Gill was named General Manager of Manges’ San Antonio Gunslingers USFL franchise that same summer. Several former Bulls/Charros players including Tony Armstrong, Tally Neal and Keith Nelms followed Gill and saw brief playing time with the Gunslingers in 1984 and 1985.
Voices
“One of the most interesting players that I encountered and had the opportunity to compete against was a wide receiver that the San Antonio Charros had named Tom Whittier.
He was a serious competitor. A dangerous guy. During the San Antonio game in the playoffs in ’78, he was their main threat. My job was to eliminate the threat. In the 2nd quarter of this game right here, I accomplished my mission. His quarterback threw him one upstairs and he had to go up and get it. On his way down, I clocked him. Broke his leg. They put him in the meat wagon and took him to the hospital.
Third quarter they kicked the ball to me. I brought that punt back about 30 yards. They hit me, dislocated my elbow. Now I’m in the meat wagon. I get to the hospital and Thomas and I were set up in beds beside each other in the emergency room. When he saw me, he jumped up like that and we both busted out laughing. We both were hurtin’, but I thought that was real funny and he did too.”
– A.T. Banks, Cornerback, Shreveport Steamer 1978-1980 (2021 FWiL Interview)
San Antonio Charros Shop
Editor's Pick
Outsiders II
by Bob Gill with Tod Maher & Steve Brainerd
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In Memoriam
Former Charros quarterback Randy Johnson battled alcoholism and homelessness for years. Destitute, he passed away in North Carolina in September 2009 at the age of 65.
Team owner (Bulls ’82-’83) Clinton Manges died on September 23, 2010 at age 87. New York Times obituary.
Downloads
7-25-1981 Bulls @ Chicago Fire Roster
7-25-1981 - San Antonio Charros @ Chicago Fire Roster
Links
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54 Responses
San Antonio also had a pro franchise in the short lived Spring Football League. The San Anonio Matadors played in the SFL in 2000.
This is a good article, but I resent the fact of the Author who does not identify himself calling the San Antonio Charros as a Low level minor League team. He may have meant a lower level professional football team as compared to the NFL, who isn’t. The AFA was a upper level minor league team, situated between the WFL and the USFL.
Joe, I agree with you. I remember 1982 Charros/ Bulls season. Management was excited about the possibility of the ’82 NFL strike. The networks had to have football. The AFA, American Football Association, was stocked with talented players that would have caught the eye of the football hungry markets and give nice pay days to the AFA. NFL owners jumped to recruit the “Scab Teams,” wearing NFL uniforms.
The NFL brass were having flash backs of the AFL getting a foothold in the football landscape of America. We were good enough to pull crowds to a packed Alamo Stadium for a WWPB night. We Want Pro Ball. The push was to get the NFL tapes of a sold out stadium and talent at every level.
Many former NFL and Canadian Football players are proud to wear the uniform of the SA BULLS. (And later the Gunslingers).
Hey, everyone’s entitled to an opinion. I’ll defer to Billy Kilmer’s quote in the article that “sometimes attendance was so small players were paid nothing.”
You tell me if that’s low-level or not.
Andy
Well Andy, I played for the San Antonio Charros, and did not get paid the last few games and as did not WFL players before us and USFL players after us. My point was we were not lower level minor league players ! You say lower level. I say not lower level minor league. Smell the roses ? Compared to the NFL most leagues are lower levels. But the Charros were not lower level minor league players as the author states. Got that? Charros were upper level Minor league players! I played the year Billy Kilmer was the Commissioner- when he WALKED! I played in Texas w/ the Charros, I played at Soldiers Field in Chicago, West Virginia, Florida, etc- I never walked liked Billy Kilmer-our Commisioner did. – he wasn’t paid I guess but neither was I. I stayed for the love of the game . HE WALKED !!!! So tell me what low level is Andy, Us tryin to play minor league football or Billy Kilmer walkin !
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Hi Joe. I also played for the 1977 Charros on the offensive line! It was a great group of guys and we had fun while winning our games.
Hello! Does anyone remember Mark Cahill?
QB Cahill? Had the best car on the team and had a nice tight spiral.
I was very fortunate to have played in San Antonio from 1977 until 1983. I was coached by George Pasterchick and
Col. Bill Blankenship and asst. coaches. We had a great opportunity to play some outstanding teams all over the United States from Chicago to Florida. We were owned by Red Mccombs who took care of his program in a very professional manner. Our general manager Roger Gill and Harry Landers worked very hard to establish a excellent product. Playing football at any Level is a great experience. Having played on back to back NAIA NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP teams at TEXAS LUTHERAN COLLEGE and having played with NAIA DIVISION I TEXAS A & I BACK TO BACK NATIONAL CHAMPIONS. We had football players from both these teams on the squad along with players from Alabama,California, and Canadian football players we were playing teams composed of the best college players in the nation. We were very fortunate to have been crowned Champions that first year. Going undefeated in any league is quite an acomlishment. I am very honored to have played with all these professional football players and coaches for seven great years. I was also very fortunate to have coached under Tim Marcum at Ranger Junior College in 1978 When we won the NJCA NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. “I was coaching at Ranger and Playing for San Antonio what a great experience”. I am also very fortunate to have coached in Texas for 37 Years.
I AM A SAN ANTONIO NATIVE BORN IN EAGLE PASS TEXAS SON OF A MIGRANT WORKER (NICOLAS & VIRGINA VALDEZ) I AM THE 14 OF 15 CHILDREN. I am indebted to the game of FOOTBALL for all its GREATNESS and will always cherish each moment i played and coached the game.
THANK YOU
ROBERTO D. VALDEZ
FOOTBALL PLAYER
FOOTBALL COACH
Is this Robert that played with Phill Hahn
Sharon, Yes Phil Hahn was a Defense End when I played. Robert Valdez and I were Linebackers on the 1981 team.
Joe. Mom (Sharon) passed away in 2021. This is one of her sons who was like 12 back then. LOL I’m Aleister Gates on FB https://www.facebook.com/Alexander.tomsawyer.Gates/
Pop – Phil Hahn passed away in 2006.
This is Joe Gross I was the QB in 1977 and 1978. I have a 1977 program; somewhere!
Joe. It’s Btuce satterfield from the Chimney apts. had some good times. Bruces1949@I cloud.com
Hey Bruce I think that was the Quail Creek Apartments. We had a hell of a water volleyball team that summer of 1977
I found the program, who needs a copy! I t was fun reviewing the players in the program. Hell, I was even on the cover!
Costing $.75, a program not too many patrons at that price could afford it!
Joe, would like the copy of 77 / 78 or other programs as you mentioned so we can add info from your 77 / 78 teams on the San Antonio Charros Football facebook page we are starting. Send it to me and other info to email: [email protected]. My number is 210-559-3236 or message us at the San Antonio Charros Football page on facebook.
I was on the 1977 team’s offensive line. Moved from Fayetteville Arkansas to San Antonio after 5 years playing for the Razorbacks.
Hi Joe and Roberto! Do you remember playing with James and Tally?
Tally Neal was a great Linebacker. When you say James, James who are you referring to.
i also played for the charros, after being a 4 year letterman at texas lutheran college, i also played for tim marcum at macarthur high school in san antonio, i loved playing for the charros and coach pasterchik, i now live in md. and follow texas football
I played for the Texas Wranglers out of Dallas.Tally Neal was a teammate of mine at Tarleton State.We had numerous players with N.F.L. and Canadian experience. It was a very good brand of football. WE played in Soldiers Field in Chicago, Orlando, Virginia, West Virginia, Carolina.If it had been baseball, it would have been like playing 3a minor league.About like the Frisco Roughriders in the Dallas area.
I am looking for a copy of the game film from 1983 when the Wranglers played the Bulls in San Antonio.I know it was broadcast on the local cable channel.Can anybody help me out on that?
I am looking for the game broadcasted in Dallas vs the Austin Texans.
Have AFA stuff on my web site but you have to view it on a pc that plays flash. iPhone will not
Does anyone recall the colors used by the San Antonio Charros? I have a color photo of them Vs Shreveport but I cannot tell if their colors were navy or black; red and white.
Also, the colors of any other teams in the AFA. If I could obtain a media guide on the league it could possibly help but haven’t located one yet!
Charros colors were Red & Black. Email me at [email protected] and I will send you color pic(s). It won’t let me post a pic here.
Red, white and black
My name is Ricky Williams. I played with Charros and Bulls. It was a very professional league and I played with some to best ex-college and professional football player. I enjoyed being coached my Coach Pasterchick, Harry Landers, Roger Gill.
Hey Bruce. Hey, we met at the Wuail Creek Apts. A lot of fun!
Hope all is well with you!
No one probably knows, but Harry Lander was my coach in the 8 grade then for two years at Roosevelt High School! Hey Rich Lander!
Joe Gross; QB
My name is Dr. Jonathan Hook. I played for the Charros in 1978-79 and was a player-coach for the Austin Texans in 1980. I played for two colleges (West Point and Wheaton) and later was a player coach for Cologne in the German Football League. The 1978 Charros season was probably the most enjoyable football of my life. Coach Pasterchick was an amazing coach. I will always be deeply honored to have been on the same team with some of the best football players I ever knew. I was a coach or player/coach on four other minor league teams, and none came close to the quality of the Charros.
I see several of my teammates on this site. I played for SA Bulls, Toros, New Orleans Blue Knights, Tallahasse Statesmen, Pensacola Wings in the years 1981-1983. Never was about the money. After some injury problems at Georgia Tech and Florida State, I needed to play before my Teachin/Career began, I had a blast, played with some great players, had a USFL contract with Boston Breakers 1982 and FA with NO Saints. God had other ideas for my life. I earned a Ed.D in education and taught Science/PE for 31 years in alabama and florida. My son Joshua played at UCF, was team captain, nominated for Academic All America twice, FA with SD Chargers and Miami Dolphins in 2012, now a football coach at Temple University. Roger Gill, George Pasterchick were good guys, we had some great trips, and alot fun. So glad for the experience. Now in retirement, had to retire with 4 total joint replacements, wore out my body, but still going strong, teaching PT at Christian school and raising my 16 yo, serving Jesus Christ daily!! Great to see so many here I played with, never heard from Bon Dunn again, we were a duo in SA…the quality of semi pro football was pretty darn good, proud of those early days, a great adventure for me, lots of stories for my 3 great [email protected] 251 490 3512 Atmore, Alabama
I see several of my teammates on this site. I played for SA Bulls, Toros, New Orleans Blue Knights, Tallahasse Statesmen, Pensacola Wings in the years 1981-1983. Never was about the money. After some injury problems at Georgia Tech and Florida State, I needed to play before my Teachin/Career began, I had a blast, played with some great players, had a USFL contract with Boston Breakers 1982 and FA with NO Saints. God had other ideas for my life. I earned a Ed.D in education and taught Science/PE for 31 years in alabama and florida. My son Joshua played at UCF, was team captain, nominated for Academic All America twice, FA with SD Chargers and Miami Dolphins in 2012, now a football coach at Temple University. Roger Gill, George Pasterchick were good guys, we had some great trips, and alot fun. So glad for the experience. Now in retirement, had to retire with 4 total joint replacements, wore out my body, but still going strong, teaching PT at Christian school and raising my 16 yo, serving Jesus Christ daily!! Great to see so many here I played with, never heard from Bon Dunn again, we were a duo in SA…the quality of semi pro football was pretty darn good, proud of those early days, a great adventure for me, lots of stories for my 3 great kids.. email me at [email protected] 251 490 3512 or FB Kevin Linam in Atmore, Alabama
I played a couple of games with San Antone in 81 the two last games of the season…I remember Houston playing at night..kickoff was 8pm and it was 100 degree’s…lol…I played with the Blue Knights for 3 years..then….got married and went to work…Great days.
I reember the days in San Antonio . It was a great experience I will never forget . Thanks for the memories .
I CAME ALL THE WAY FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA TO PLAY WITH SOME GREAT FOOTBALL PLAYER AND HAD A GREAT TIME AND MET SOME GREAT PEOPLE.LIKE TO GAVE THANKS TO ALL THE COACHES,FANS, CHEERLEADER AND THE PEOPLES IN SAN ANTOTONIO TEXAS.I PLAY ON TEAM CALL SA BULL AND I PLAY WITH THE AUSTIN TEXAN.LOOK ME UP SOME TIME. LC COLE
I was wondering if there are any programs from 1977-78 that are floating around out there. I would like to get one that has the pictures of the cheerleaders as I was one during that time.
Does anyone remember Ed Rowley? What position did he play and what years was he with the Charros. He coached me at Madison H.S., super coach!
Ed Rowley played linebacker with the Charros. He was my teammate but I don’t know how many years he played as I only played the ’81 season with the Charros.
Does anyone remember Ed Rowley? What position did he play and what years was he with the Charros. He coached me at Madison H.S., super coach! Where can i find team photos/rosters?
Ed Rowley passed away in 2016. RIP
Hello guys,my daughter sent me this link and glad she did. By the Ed Rowly played linebacker and was very good. I totally agree with you all, the AFA was a very competitive league. We traveled
quite a bit also. One night in New Orleans after the game, we all chipped in for some beer, but all the stores were closed,so guess what our high patrol officer that was escorting us to the freeway did? He took us to a bootlegger back in woods, where we purchased our beer in a variety. We had a blast on the bus all the
way back to SA.
Stickman!
Lot of years since anyone posted. I played 5 years maybe 79 to 84. Contracted with the gunslingers and got cut after 3 weeks LOL.. made some great friends and have some “interesting” stories.
Hey Steve, – Joe K here, played with you with the Charros and of course at SWT before that before transferring- hope you’re doing good buddy.
Hello everyone,
This is Ricky Williams. I played with the Charros and Bulls. The AFA was a top notch league. The players that played during this time were one step from being NFL players. I played with a lot of great players JV Stokes, Alfredo Avila, Clarence Alberts, Keith Nelms, Tom Whittier, Dudley Keller,Rhiny Williams, Ken Mills and may more. Those was some of the best times of my life. I would like to get together and see some of the ones that are still around. Contact Ricky Williams 512-297-7824 or [email protected]
Does anyone have any information on Mark Cahill, I believe he played in 1981?
Mark Cahill was the Quarterback for our Charros team in 1981 but I have no further info on him but hopefully someone else can fill us in about him. He was a charachter.
Thank you for the response! What is a charachter?
What cable TV station broadcast the Bulls games? I would love to get a copy of the game between the Bulls and the Texas Wranglers from 1983.
It was a blast playing with some great guys named here. Only for the “Love of the Game” for sure!
Frank Oakes
I am the play by play commentator for the 2023 San Antonio Gunslingers. I would be interested in communicating with any 1977 Charros players or frankly any of y’all who played for the Charros. I would like to determine who would be interested in being part of the pregame at the first round of the 2023 playoffs (August 5th) or possibly the 2023 National Arena League championship game (August 12th) at the Freeman Coliseum. Please reply to [email protected]
Since the Charros comment board is particularly active on this site, I’ll note that I’ve now added a complete Charros official roster from July 1981 to the downloads section on this page.
Drew
Site Editor
Yes Drew- saw it but you call it the Bulls Roster in your comment of the download image. It was the Charros still (as the roster image even says) before changing name to Bulls. I was there at that game on the Charros team, we played the Chicago Fire at Soldier Field in Chicago when the field was artificial turf. They are back to natural grass on the field now a days. They have also renovated he stadium now that it barely if all resembles Historic Soldier Field as it looked back then. The game we played there was supposed to be on national cable TV but negotiations fell thru on that and thats when our AFA Commissioner Billy Kilmer quit because of no TV contract for the league. That certainly hurt the league and teams financially but we went on.
My name is Walter Darton, I played with the Charros. In 1980 before I, went to RhineMain AFB Germany, in July of that year, I caught a Touchdown Pass in our opening game against Fort Worth and had a crucial catch to set up the winning field goal against Austin, I attended Southern University from 1975-1977 while at S.,U. as a freshman in 75, I played with James Mosley the Shreveport Steamers starting Quarterback